From Boring to Blockbuster: Rethinking Frontline Training

(02:33) Embracing titles and themes that reflect both personality and mission can create stronger identification with learning leadership.
(05:06) Integrating cultural references into training content can make lessons more accessible and easier to retain.
(07:12) Positive reactions from learners can reflect a deeper emotional connection to content and signal cultural impact.
(09:25) Increased adoption of learning systems often results from both engaging content and consistent accountability.
(11:33) Including personalized elements in training can humanize the learning process and foster stronger engagement.
(13:04) Encouraging knowledge-sharing and collaboration helps establish a culture of continuous improvement.
(15:11) Designing relevant content requires self-awareness and understanding of the audience's generational preferences.
(18:41) A blended learning model can provide flexibility while respecting the operational demands of frontline roles.
(22:39) Personal connection, whether virtual or in person, plays a central role in building trust and reinforcing learning outcomes.

Wisetail website

Primanti Bros. Restaurant and Bar website

Julius: [00:00:00] People wanna learn and people want to interact with information, and they wanna do it in a way that makes sense to them. And so, pop culture is happening every day. And so the more we can tap into that, and connect that with the things that we're trying to teach people, the more memorable those things are gonna become.

Evan: Today we are joined by Julius Ridgley. Julius resides in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania with his wife and two children. He entered hospitality at the age of 17 and has an extensive history of working in restaurants, doing everything from washing [00:01:00] dishes, to running restaurants, to corporate training. Currently, Julius leverages his talents as the Director of learning and Development for NY Brothers.

Restaurant and bar. A 93-year-old concept based out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, almost famous for sandwiches piled high with coleslaw and fresh cut french fries with locations in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, and Maryland. This position allows him to use 20 plus years of leadership experience at a lifetime of pop culture.

To make learning fun, help others leverage their talents and find new solutions to old problems. When he is not working, you'll probably find him with some sort of food, probably a sandwich. A good book, A game controller deciding which Marvel Star Wars DC comic movie to watch or rewatch. Or amateur Uber driving his kids around.

Wow. Julius, welcome to Wise Tales. Thrilled to have you here. I am really [00:02:00] excited to have this conversation today because I know you call yourself a restaurant Jedi, and I do wanna hear a little bit more about where that came from. The end part of your bio. Tips us off just a little bit, I think. But you know, I'd love to hear it straight from you.

Julius: A little foreshadowing there at the end. well thank you so much for having me. I'm super thrilled to be on here. So the Restaurant Jedi just like list things that I believe most Western males, and it's probably a global thing. It sounds cool. That's like the main motivator. I think it sounds really cool.

Obviously I'm a huge star, star Wars fan. Big fan of Star Wars. love the hospitality business. Been in it for a long time. And so when I think about the Jedi, I think about them as sort of like protectors of, peace and prosperity in the galaxy. Meaning that they're protectors of the culture.

Right. And, and that they'll defend that culture tooth and nail, or with a laser sword. So when I think about a restaurant, Jedi, I like to think about it in that regard, right? Plus it sounds cooler, you know, than director of learning and Development. I [00:03:00] also like to think about it as, you know, I.

Jedi are teachers, right? And that's what, that's what I do. That's my jam. So, when I think about, the, the industry, I like to think that you could put me in any restaurant anywhere, and I would at least not embarrass myself. You know, somebody shows me where the, spatula is and, and how to ring things on the POS, whatever it is.

I could do just about anything and be at least passable. So that's kinda where it comes from. I like to have fun with titles, and Restaurant Jedi sounds pretty cool. So that's what I got.

Evan: Certainly memorable if nothing else.

Julius: Absolutely.

Evan: So one of the things that I know, was also shared in your bio is pop culture. You know, I, I'm, I'm gonna say pop culture to me means something from maybe the late 19 hundreds, but not withstanding. I'd love to hear a little bit about your approach to using pulp culture as part of your culture Building exercises.

Probably maybe align to the Jedi concept.

Julius: Indeed. Indeed. So, yes. when I.

So [00:04:00] often like to remind me, that that's where I came from. Right. And when you think about it, a lot of the things from the late 19 hundreds are, are coming back into style. You know, they're remaking all the movies, they're remaking all the TV shows. And so when we think about pop culture, you know, obviously I'm an, I guess an elder millennial is my official.

Generational category. I guess if you break those down further, I'm a zenni, which means I grew up with technology, but it wasn't like the main part of my development. So I like to say I'm like a, a little bit of an analog and digital guy, like I'm a hybrid. And so, you know, a lot of my formative years to sit watching movies, watching tv, playing video games, all of the advent of those things happened in my youth, right.

And so that shapes, that, shapes you, fits with you. and I believe really when you think about it, I mean, look at the industries that, that are abounding in this country. The streaming industry does over $500 billion a year. Right? Movies does, 99. Billion dollars a year. You know, podcasts do [00:05:00] $21.4 billion a year.

People wanna learn and people want to interact with information, and they wanna do it in a way that makes sense to them. And so, pop culture is happening every day. And so the more we can tap into that, and connect that with the things that we're trying to teach people, the more memorable those things are gonna become.

And that's really what the, what the crux of the, the argument is, right? It's not just, we don't just teach people just to teach 'em. And then wash our hands with the situation. We want 'em to remember things. We wanna change behaviors, right? We wanna drive results. And you do that by making it entertaining or making it fun, or, or, or making it something that sticks with them.

And finding different avenues to do that, whether it's music, whether it's TV shows, whether it's movies, whether it's, cartoons or, or comic strips, whatever it is. Everybody's into something so you find that and you just keep hammering it until they get the idea.

Evan: So a question for you. Has this approach actually driven results in your organization? Do you see higher levels of engagement and [00:06:00] learning outcomes as a result of using some of those pop culture activities?

Julius: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, interestingly enough, when we look at our, our results from our learning management system, you know, prior to my arrival in the Ferman verse, we were, you know, the learning was just something that you had to do right? And now obviously we do couple all of this pop culture and fun with.

Good. Solid reporting and, and accountability. Right. nothing's ever gonna take the place of that. Like, you gotta, you gotta, you know, follow up on people and make sure that they know that you're watching, right? And whether or not they do the things. But I think where it shows up for us is, you know, when we look at our course ratings, you know, there's an option to rate every course that you take.

In our learning agent system, and our course ratings are, 4.2, five out of five. And we have like over 200 courses in our catalogs. that's not a bad rate of stars, right? People get a 4.2 out of five stars. That's pretty good. And I think the biggest thing is the reaction that I get when I'm out in the field.

So, I spend a fair amount of time in our restaurants, uh, love, love, love talking [00:07:00] to our operators, talking to our hourly, team, learning from them, interacting with our guests. It's just always a lot of fun. But inevitably someone finds out like my title, right? Because they'll look at me and they'll be like, oh, are you a corporate guy?

And, uh. Almost like a challenge, you know? and usually I, when I tell who I am, they'll say, oh, you are the guy that makes the learnings. And then I'm like, usually afraid, like, I'm afraid, like somebody's gonna pull a weapon or something, right? And they're like, man, I love. Like, you literally took the worst part of our job and made it like, awesome.

Like, I love the way you put these things together. Like, I never know what you're gonna throw in there. And that's just like, I don't ask them for that. I don't put them a 20. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't send them money. Like, like this is just unsolicited feedback and it's always like a, it's like an immediate natural reaction.

They go from being like, defensive because they find out like I'm a corporate person, they think I'm there to judge them or whatever it is. They immediately like switch gears and are like super animated and excited to talk to me about like, the ridiculous thing that I put in [00:08:00] one of the learnings that made them laugh.

So, we certainly see it in that regard as well. There's a, a little bit of excitement around learning, versus it just being a chore. or something that they have to do or something that they've crossed off a list. I think it's always gonna be that to a certain extent. But it's also coupled with like a genuine sort of excitement, you know?

People get a kick out of like, I'll, I'll throw shout outs in the learning, which is really funny. Like, I, I like to use the Hunger Games gif where Kaus is saluting and the rest of District 12 is saluting her back or whatever it is. I always like to do that and then like, like whenever we're saying goodbye to a menu item.

LTO course. I always like to do that, but let then reference like a prep person who no longer has to make that item by name and like subtitle the gif with that. So that, and then inevitably people start, you know, sending me messages and be like, oh, I can't believe you gave Mel a shout out. That's awesome.

It's so funny. Ha ha ha. Or like, Mel will respond back. Yeah, I hated making those setups. They're terrible. I'm so glad they're gone. [00:09:00] Some of it is, like I said, the course ratings. We go by that, you know, we take those pretty seriously as far as how people rate us. There's also comments. People will, will put in comments about the course. I sift through those sometimes. Most of them are very good. some of them aren't. It's good.

We take those two, we take 'em all. They're all instructive. And then I would say too, like our, our adoption rate with the LMS has really skyrocketed, um, over the last year and a half. Our team has really moved from, you know, like a, like a 75 to 80% adoption rate. Well of completion of courses, to into the mid nineties, like 90 to 95% consistently.

And you know, certainly some of that has to do with, follow up, but a lot of it has to do with people being interested in the content.

Evan: So I just have to say, when I am searching, I am DB for my next movie. I'm gonna watch, anything over like a three and a half is fair game for me. So it sounds like your courses are definitely something that would show up on my radar. So congratulations, 

Julius: Awesome. You know what, I'm gonna put that in my next performance evaluation. I need to actually finish all that out. So like, I'm gonna put that in there, like compared to Im DB or Rotten Tomatoes. That's [00:10:00] a good one. I should compare that and see I'm at

Evan: right? We we're always looking for measures success, and I, I think you've got two qualified. Benchmarks right there.

Julius: Do that. Look at that. Everybody write that down.

Evan: So, a couple of follow up questions I have. So when you're talking, when you think about engagement, right? We can look at completions, we can look at adoption metrics. We, we talked about those a little bit, but one of the things that I think that you said was really interesting was people reaching out to you.

So not only this engagement piece where you're doing these shout outs within these trainings and. Creating those stories, right, that people can personally attach to, but then their interaction with you back. So is that something that you have found to be sort of a culture driver? Is that something, you know, when we think about restaurant Jedi and, and keeping the peace and building the culture, is that something that you have found to be maybe a more quantitative or qualitative [00:11:00] measure rather than, you know, just relying on those completions.

Julius: Sure. Yeah. I think anytime you're looking at things like, about how people feel, you know, or how things make people feel, there's always gonna be a little bit more of a, qualitative. You know, measure to it rather than hard numbers. And I think when you look at things, the, the reactions that people have to the things, can be all over the place, right?

And, and you can't necessarily put that on like a, like a Likert scale rate. That's hard to do. I always tend to think about it more in guess you need those hard numbers for sure, right? I mean, that's just, that's tables. You have those things. But when you're thinking about mindset, right? Which I think is really what we're talking about. What are people's mindset about the things, how do they feel about it, right? When they have to approach it or do it. You can't necessarily measure that with a stick, but you can measure it with reactions, right? And how people, are, are buying into or, or following what what you're doing, right.

And again, how memorable it is, right? So when you have something, like I said, where you put something out there and people play back at you, [00:12:00] right? You know, they at least. Saw that far into the training. Right? Or, you know, that they at least got something out of that information. Right. And that, you know, they know that that item's no longer on the menu.

Right. Because it definitely. And so the reactions that people have, I think is something that you have to get by being out there and talking to the people and connecting with them as much as possible. And so sometimes you have to do that in person. Sometimes you can do that virtually, sort of like we're doing right now.

You know, there's any number of different ways to get at that, but you know, when you're, when you're thinking about the culture itself, I think it's all about how people feel and how people react to you. So a lot of the times the reaction that we get as learning folks is less like. Oh, you're like a corporate guy that I should be afraid of.

Not that you should be afraid of anybody in your office. I mean, they're there. They're on your team, right? You know what I mean? But you know, we're not there to judge you. I, we always say like, the worst things can happen if you come to your restaurant is we're gonna learn something together. You know, like that's the way it's gonna be.

We're gonna learn something together. And I'm gonna learn from you just as much as you're gonna learn from me. You're gonna learn from each other [00:13:00] probably more than you're gonna learn from me. And so by driving that kind of mindset and that sort of, thinking around learning, it does help to drive the culture, right?

Because you're driving a culture of a growth mindset. We're not out here like actively trying to make you fail. We're here to help you get better, right? So if. I know something that you don't know, I'm gonna share that with you because I wanna help you get better at what you're doing. If you know something, I don't know, I'm always happy to, you can bust me on not knowing something and put it in my face and I'm happy to.

I'm happy about that. That means that you know more than I do, and that's great. We have to learn from each other. This thing is a collective experience. So, and then I think too, like when you look at the way that the teams function, the way our operators function as far as like the general manager and the folks running the restaurant, the management teams, how they react to the learning and how they view it.

When they don't view it as like this unbearable thing, that's just something that you have to cross out the list, but something that's gonna help them. Where they look at it as like, yeah, that LTO course really gave my servers the idea of what was going on. I had to just follow up in [00:14:00] pre-shift. Right?

It makes life easier for them, so they have to, they have to understand that. But the training and the learning has to be something people wanna engage with, something people wanna do.

Evan: So one of the questions I have for you, well, gosh, I have so many questions. Let me start with this. If we're thinking about, something that our listeners. Could do tomorrow to incorporate some of those pop culture aspects, some of those unexpected, and I think the word you used was exciting components to training.

Where would you [00:15:00] advise them? Start?

Julius: Well, I think authenticity is key. So you have to be real in order for people to buy in. So it has to be something that's authentic to you. So if you don't like Star Wars, first off, we need to talk. Okay. Secondly, yeah,

Evan: Look 'em up on LinkedIn.

Julius: yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll buy you a coffee. we'll talk about it.

You don't want to use that as your your angle, right? If that doesn't work for you, you don't know anything about it, right? You want to pick some things that are authentic to you. And that's what I always kind of start with. Like, what are things that are entertaining me or that interest me? Then I try to think about the audience themselves, right?

And I try to think about, okay, well who am I dealing with? We're dealing with a multi-generational workforce, right? So I can't have everything that I'm putting out there from an, you know, educational, entertainment standpoint. I can't have it all be like. whatever the weird language the kids have is SC Ohio raised that.

My kids are always talking about that. If, if they heard me say that, they would just be like, dad, shut up. Like, I can't have it be all that. Right. And I [00:16:00] can't have it be all things that are, are, are things from like the eighties. Right. Which is an era that I, I know intimately. Right? So you have to kind of like think about your audience and kind of think about what kind of things would, would pop with them.

Right. So I like things that cross. You know, genres, right? So things that were books that turned into movies. So like Harry Potter's, a rich trove of things, right? People like to decide what house that they're in, and you can have a conversation with people about that, right? Like, you know, Pokemon is huge, right?

So trying to figure out like what kind of Pokemon you're into is a big deal. So, so I think, like I said, first be authentic. second, try to think about your audience, right? Think about who, like, you know, try to make it, put in different things that different people, would connect. That's really important because then everyone can kind of see themselves.

In your training and you know, they understand that there's a person that's really thinking about them, behind the training that's coming out. And then I think last but not least, I just think it's really important to just have fun with it. You know, like keep it safe for hr, right? Keep getting them checked, but you know, have fun with it.

Have a good time. Like, [00:17:00] you know, you're creating learning. And if for us, you know, we make beautiful sandwiches, one cake sandwiches, right? With french fries and Cole on it is not that deep. We're not performing heart surgery or brain surgery, we're not flying planes. So have fun with it. You know, try to have fun with what you're doing.

It'll make the experience more fun and better for you. And when you're having fun while you're creating the things, it's gonna be better for the end user and the person that has to consume it. Like, could you imagine like a depressed filmmaker trying to write comedies, like it's not gonna work?

Evan: I love that aspect of authenticity because I certainly, and you know, when I make it out to Pittsburgh, I'm gonna take you up on that coffee offer because I'm not a Star Wars person. And so, uh, that would,

Julius: so many things to show you. My.

Evan: that would not be my angle. But one of the really interesting things that you talked about is going out into the stores and talking with people and learning from each other and them learning from each other and, and all of those components. [00:18:00] How do you effectively navigate that, that bridge between technology within LMS and those in-person sort of experiences?

What does that look like for you? Do you have a. A 60 40 ratio. Do you, you know, do you have any mathematical equations you could share about what that training looks like, or, or how do you integrate the two to make an even better, more exponential experience? I.

Julius: I don't know if I have a mathematical equation, not, not like a hard mathematical equation. I always try to keep in mind again, like who's the audience that I'm dealing with, right? So a lot of times we're creating things for restaurant operators. They're super busy, they don't work in an office. They're running around a hundred miles an hour.

They got a million things to take care of. And they have like real legitimate deadlines. Like I have deadlines, I think they're due tomorrow. Right. But if I don't do them, like I'm gonna get chewed out. I don't gonna get fired. Right. If you don't deliver someone their sandwich, they, you're right there and they're hungry and they have sharp objects at the [00:19:00] table, like you are in danger.

Right? So you really have like. No time to sit down and do like a 30 minute training. Like that's not your jam. Okay. Taking you out of your restaurant so you can come to a four hour workshop and listen to me tell you everything that I've learned in my life. Right? You don't have time for that. Right. So that's where I think sort of like a blended approach can be very helpful.

Because you have to keep the, the, the attention span. And the time constraints that your people are working under, you have to keep that top of mind. So any type of thing that you wanna do, whether it's a, uh, development program, whether it's, a leadership training program, whether it's a a job readiness program, you gotta have a mixture of in-person.

You gotta have some of it virtual because there's no way you can do it all in person nowadays. Like it's just really hard, you know? And with the number of restaurants we have and the book we have, it's just very hard to do everything in person and bring everyone to one place. So, bringing everybody together for a session where they're gonna meet in person for four hours and then they have things that they have to do [00:20:00] on their own.

Like they have a clear roadmap of what they have to do and what the, requirements are and what the expectations are. And then like a virtual meeting, right? Where we all get together and we talk about what we did in the past month or whatever the timeframe was and what we've learned, and what our results were, right?

And then again, another month or whatever the timeframe is of assignments and things that you have to accomplish, right? That allows them to, to get the learning that they need, right? It does give you that group sort of mentality where you're gonna get the opportunity to learn from each other, which as I tell them all the time.

I'm just here to like, create an environment. You all are gonna talk about what you do in your restaurants. You need realize that you're all doing the same things. You all have the same problems, right? You all have the same like, you know, long tenured daylight dishwasher who's like a philosopher and also like, might wanna fight you in the parking lot, maybe, I don't know.

Who knows what they're into, right? They're just, the names are different, but they're the same things, right? And, and the more people can have that like, and they realize that they're not alone. They're the only [00:21:00] one going through these things. Then that's when like, they can really actually learn something and grow.

Right? So, so doing that allows them to have the same experience as it as it would be if we brought them in for a whole week and did a bunch of workshops every day. But you're just spreading it out over a timeframe, say maybe three months or full of months. and you're allowing them to interact with the stuff in a timeframe that makes sense with them.

And their schedules, they're able to work on their tasks or do their things, whatever they want, as long as they get it done within the timeframe. And then they know that there's dedicated time where you have to be available, whether it's in person or virtual, that's a lot easier to, to stomach and a lot easier to execute, based on the reality is that our operators face.

So, and, and I think that that really does sort of, again, back to the culture piece that lets those people know that, hey, like you see and understand. From a home office standpoint, what the culture are going through, and you're gonna try as best as possible to create things that fit their schedule. Now, am I gonna have to inconvenience you and have you come outta your restaurant?

Yeah, probably. Right? But at [00:22:00] least I'm gonna try to make sure that it's worthwhile, And I'm gonna try to minimize that as much as I possibly can so that you can get back to business. So I think that that's all really, really important stuff to keep in mind. But it, I think it all depends on what the, what the objective is, right?

As far as like how much of it is in person, how much of it is virtual? Uh, it depends on the project, depends on the objective. Depends on what your, what your desired outcomes are. And I think you have to tailor it to that. So that's why I don't have a hard and fast math rule. But I don't think anything's ever gonna replace human interaction.

You know, meeting with someone face to face and talking with them is great, but I do think that there's plenty of things you can do virtually in this type of a setting where you can really get to know someone and spend some time with them. I think people just want people to spend time with them, right?

That's really what they want. You want, they want you to spend your time on 'em and how you do it. It doesn't really matter whether it's the phone call, whether it's virtual, whether it's on Teams or Zoom, whether it's, an in-person visit when you spend time with someone and you're really, it's, it's a good conversation.

It's a good interaction. It's time well spent. It [00:23:00] doesn't really matter how you do it. Now, I will say, if you're gonna do it in this type of a setting, you gotta like, almost treat it like you're on stage. So every, if you're on stage, you gotta do everything a little bit more exaggerated. You gotta be a little bit more extra, because you, you're missing like that.

That like you're not five feet away from me. So like I can't necessarily read all your body language and your cues and like, and all that kind of stuff. So you gotta be a little bit more over the top in those types of settings. But you can still get the point across. and you can still develop those interactions.

Evan: I really thank you that I'm relatively speechless here, which doesn't happen often. I really like that that acknowledgement of those shared experiences, right? We are all sort of 99% alike in our experiences, and sometimes that validation is exactly what you need to continue to move forward.

And so using technology as a compliment, as opposed to a replacement for a lot of that. Human that we do every single day I, I think is a, is a great story. So [00:24:00] my final question for you is something we ask of all of our guests. If you could design your own bumper sticker, what would it say and why?

Julius: Ooh. Bumper sticker. It's like very like, well, presidential. 

Evan: It's, it's, it's kind of throwbacky, but it's

Julius: I like it. No, I like it. I like it. This is good. Okay. Because I'm extra, can I give you two? Can I give you like a serious one and then like, kind of like a funnier one? I.

Evan: Of of, of course, of

Julius: Okay. All right. So the serious one would be, I think if I was gonna make a bumper sticker and put it on my car, I think it would say leave a path, because I do feel like we're all on this journey together.

And, you know, the fi like if you ever like, are out hiking in the woods, you know, and, and you're, you kind of get off the trail, but then you see like a. Path when somebody else is cleared, it's kind of comforting, right? 'cause you know, somebody else has been this way, right? And if they got through, you can get through, right?

So, so leave a path for others to follow. Now you could certainly do whatever you want with that, but that's, that's will be the intent of the bumper sticker. And I think that when I think about [00:25:00] how I am as a person, sort of like what I'm supposed to do here on Earth, like that's my whole goal. It is to really just leave a path for someone else.

So that if they can take something from my journey and it makes their journey easier, and then they can take things a little further, I think if there's a little bit more of that in the world, be be, be in good shape. So, so leave a path would be bumper sticker number one. bumper sticker Number two, which I think is funnier is advice that I actually got from, uh, a line cook many, many, many, many years ago.

I was leaving a restaurant and everybody had like. Had given me a card and they wrote like things in it. Like, Julius got locked. Julius you love you, Julius never come back. Like all those things. Right. And one of the cooks wrote, don't get any on you. That was the end of his advice. And I tell you what I'm not kidding.

That was probably, Lord, help me. That was probably like 30 years ago. No, 25 years ago. It has to be about 25 years ago now. And that has stuck with me all these years and I, I still to this day don't really even know [00:26:00] what he meant. But it just applies in so many scenarios, right? Like, just, just don't get any on you.

Whatever you're doing, don't get any on you. So shout out to, I will not name the line cook, but shout out to the line, cook that, drop that piece of wisdom on me.

Evan: Well, hopefully, hopefully this particular person is listening and now they're quasi famous and I appreciate that. So to me, those two bumper stickers tie so well together. It's sort your experience right, is don't get any Anya. And it's like recognize you will, but try not to, and then leave a path like when you do get that stuff.

People will learn not to sort of make those same mistakes. And so I thank you for sharing both of those because I think they tell a really compelling story about who you are and what you, what you wish to do in the world. Julius, this has been a really fantastic conversation. I'm so grateful you joined today and, uh, I, I wish you the best of luck in introducing all [00:27:00] of maybe the younger generation in the multi-generation workforce to all of.

The immense benefits the eighties and nineties produced.

Julius: Indeed it is. It is a burden, but burden I'm willing to bear.

Evan: Leave that path.

Julius: Yeah, leave a right, right. Yeah. But thank you for having this, this is always a, the, the podcast is great. Love this thing to it, and really just a, a real treat to be a part of it. So thank you so much for the opportunity.